Oh dear, I’ve got into deep water over an article I did for The Mail on Sunday at the weekend about trouble on rail enthusiasts’ trains. I wrote that there had been a fight on one train inNovember which resulted in a man being escorted off by the BTP and then explained how followers of some classes of diesel locomotive have a bad reputation.
The subject arose because it had been covered by Pip Dunn in Railways Illustrated and it seemed like a rather intriguing tale. Inevitably the Mail went a bit over the top in its presentation but the substance of the story is entirely accurate. However, it has elicited more irate emails than even when I once praised the Tories!
What caused most anger was the picture of a bunch of Class 45 followers giving what looks like a Nazi salute at their favourite locomotive. In fact, they have assured me that this has nothing to do with politics, even though there is a Union Jack in the picture but is merely the rail enthusiasts’ traditional way of paying homage to their favourite loco and, worse, it was on a fundraiser for one of their number who was dying of cancer.
Of course, I had nothing to do with the selection of the photo since that was done by the Mail subeditors but, that aside, I’ve got news for them: just as you can’t go around wearing swastikas, or making monkey chants at football matches, you can’t raise your hand in that way without appearing to endorse the BNP. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, etc etc. If you put that picture on the internet, then that is what it will look like even if nothing like that was intended. End of story.
As for the tale itself, well there is no doubt that there was an extremely unpleasant incident on a Class 40 hauled train in November about which I was actually pretty understated because I didn’t mention the groping of women and the generally lewd behaviour stretching over several hours. And there has been a string of other incidents. Several people have said on the various websites that they will no longer go on these trains because of the excessive drinking. I do accept, however, that this was nothing to do with Class 40 followers and that was made clear in the story.
However, despite all the abuse I have received, if this story helps to ensure people behave well in future, it will have been worth running. And as for the lad who said that my face is eminently punchable, doesn’t that sort of behaviour suggest my story was, euh, on the ball?
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48 Responses
What a typical way of trying to weasel out “It was the sub-editors fault the picture”… Well sorry but how, you are the one that mentioned the gesture in that way, so therefore you must have known the content of the picture. Here’s a thought… you work for a well known Rail Magazine with enthusiasts on the staff perhaps like all good journalists should you could have checked your facts before going into print. I am not going to name names but you know those who on the staff who could have instantly told you the meaning of that gesture.
Now then, returning to the “it wasnt my fault” point; the name at the top of the column is “Christian Wolmar” therefore it looks like a Christian Wolmar column (or a duck if you will) so perhaps it might be said to Quack like a Christian Wolmar column.
I for one have emailed Nigel Harris to inform him that I shall no longer be purchasing Rail Magazine until you are suspended pending investigation on this article – which I do believe have potential liableous and copyright of picture issues. I also know I am not the only one.
Lets hope Mr Harris has some balls about him to not gloss over this issue.
Posted on December 9th, 2008 at 12:27 am
these comments will probably be deleted as well – try putting a complaint in to the Press Commission – I think this is what this is all about ? – The Star have ran a copycat article as well .
It’s amazing how the Oh ! Dear piece has been toned down ? – The Union jack flag had NOTHING to do with the National Front – it was merely something they’d picked up on from Football .
As for “Sieg Heil “salutes – the arm tends to be at a slightly different angle – one of the pictures was obviously from the 80’s but the scan in wasn’t uploaded until 2003 .
As for drunks – I can’t recall Bashers singing football songs be it in the 80’s or the noughties .
Posted on December 9th, 2008 at 2:07 am
Im surprised to see an amended version of the earlier blog.
This version states lewd behaviour on a class 40 hauled train and now that it has been edited im confused as it follows on with :-
“and there has been a string of other incidents.”
To me that comment implies other class 40 hauled Tours.
Furthermore, the explanation given above was that the article was prompted by Pip Dunns column. However in a telecon earlier today,Christian stated it followed as a result of a friend of his complaining about the behaviour on the train.
I TRULY cannot see how Christian can try to bluff his way out of responsability for the pictures when his name was on the article.
The ” duck ” statement made in relation to the salute surely also applies to the pictures linked to the article.
What has not been been mentioned is the ” over zealous headline ” which made the train on November 15th look like a free for all.
There were a couple of incidents in 13 hours of travelling from some 500+plus passengers, not all of which were railway enthusiasts.
There is a lot more antics go on from a lot less people in a shorter space of time every weekend outside pubs and clubs. It happens midweek also yet the headline of RUNNING AMOC gives a totally inaccurate picture of the true events.
Posted on December 9th, 2008 at 3:32 am
Christain has changed his web site! Christain has removed comments written by other people! Surely there must be a law against such things…
Oh, no, silly me, what with it being his own web site he can say and do what he likes, within reason.
If someone was slagging me off on my own web site I’d definitely remove the comments, because I have the freedom, in fact the right to do so.
Censorship is when the authorities make the changes, when you do it yourself its called editing – But I guess Nazi style editing doesn’t have the same ring to it.
Posted on December 9th, 2008 at 9:32 am
Well the forum for my local provincial newspaper recently had a “cull” of the biggest troublemakers on its blogs – and no prisoners were taken. And it wasn’t just individuals who were making crass off-topic posts and blowing off steam about completely unrelated topics, it was about people who were making borderline slanderous comments towards the author of the story, and to other posters on the blog.
Those cowardly individuals who like to hide behind the supposed anonymity of a website to make personal attacks on others forget that all this stuff is visible to the whole world on the WWW and the press has a right to defend itself from the possible legal implications.
Posted on December 9th, 2008 at 9:47 am
Christian,
How ever could you have fallen for it?
The Mail is the last newspaper that any respected free-lance journalist or railway employee should have any contact with – I hope that you have learned you lesson!
Posted on December 9th, 2008 at 10:27 am
Dear Mr Wolmar
I am glad that you seem to be making at least a partial retraction in response to the “feedback” you have received from people who are perhaps a little closer to the situation than you are. Whilst any individual incident of anti-social behaviour is unacceptable it is a gross exaggeration to extrapolate that to a typical tabloid “this country is ruined because everyone is a drunken bum/illegal immigrant/Nazi (that’s a new one to be fair) headline.
Had this article been written by an ill-informed tabloid journalist no-one would be making much of a fuss because we all know they are idiots – but putting your name to it gave it credibility and it’s done your reputation no good whatsoever.
Posted on December 9th, 2008 at 11:01 am
Maybe Mr Wolmar would like to donate his fee for the article (I’m sure they didn’t use his name for free) to either the CFPS or the charity for which the event and subsequent photo at Llangollen was in aid of?
Posted on December 9th, 2008 at 12:08 pm
I agree totally with these comments criticizing you for your involvement in this gross miss-representation. Furthermore I disagree totally with your claim that the photo shows anything like Nazi-style salutes. Unless, of course, you believe that all the children photographed by the BBC with Pudsey Bear in 2007 which appear in the photograph at http://www.bbc.co.uk/lincolnshire/content/images/2007/11/20/cin_2007_14_470×352.jpg are also sworn Nazis.
Posted on December 9th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
Christian,
Many railway professionals are actively involved with or are members of the Class 40 Preservation Society, putting your name to such an ill informed gutter press article can only harm your credibility within the railway industry.
I respectfully suggest you do some homework on the charter train business and diesel preservation.
Posted on December 9th, 2008 at 2:47 pm
I can’t believe you did actually do that article Christian (I know it is the credit crunch and all that – but surely you could have passed up on this topic…)
However – Class 45 supporters can sadly no longer rely on the print workers to save them from the embarrasment of such wrong headed salutes as Arthur Scargill could rely on back in ‘84 – if memory serves me correctly the Mail wanted to print a pic of Scargill with his hand in the air in a way that looked like a Nazi salute – but print workers pulled the pic – so the paper appeared with a blank space where the picture should have been! Nice one printers!
Having said that I must say the behaviour of some people does leave a lot to be desired. Last tour I was on I left the stock at London Vic at the end of the day to be disgusted that the carraiges were heavily littered with rubbish and empty beer cans all over the shop – and this was EMU stock that people on board wanted to raise money to preserve?!! It’s no wonder that some people find train travel so off putting – if even certain enthusiasts seem to treat the train like a mobile boozed up litter bin!
Posted on December 9th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
There is an issue of excessive drunkenness on rail tours and has been for some time. Pip Dunn, in a balanced RI editorial, addresses the problem regarding a minority of people mixed with alcohol. Pip goes on to suggest some possible remedies – none of which you chose to pass on to the greater public in your piece. You also chose to ignore that many tours run without incident. I can assure you that, as a railway professional myself, many alcohol related incidents occur every day on the network that are far worse than you describe; these do not get reported in the Mail or any other national newspaper for that matter. Why is this? It is not a story that is why…
The article with your name can not be described as balanced can it? Please don’t hide behind an issue raised by others to justify the Mail article. The “nazi” salutes are not relevant to your story – so why mention it ? Furthermore what have the Peak Army got to do with anything in the article ? Perhaps the word ‘Army’ in the title had something to do with it ? I feel for the poor souls in the picture branded as Nazis – how do YOU feel about that ?
I would disagree with you on the nazi salutes. A group of people smiling and laughing in front of a train with their arms raised does not make me think of Nazis. Why does the caption have to mention it? There is no need. You know as well as I do how the media works; Headline – Picture – Story. You knew this when you submitted the piece….
The article is sensational and even if it has been sub-edited, you must have pointed them in the right direction…. you have pandered to the preconceived ideas the national media has regarding rail enthusiasts…which is shameful for someone in your position.
If you were as clued up on railways as I assumed you were, you would know that some of the very people you unfairly tar, by association as hooligans, are railway professionals (and in their spare time are also dedicated preservationists)
Posted on December 9th, 2008 at 3:54 pm
Oh Mr Woolmar what shall he do.
He wrote a stupid article
and ended in the poo
Kick the arse of Pip Dunn
as fast as he can
Oh Mr Woolmar what a silly ned I am
Posted on December 9th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
What a shocking article you wrote. Absolute sensationalist nonsense. A charity charter gets that treatment. Shame on you sir.
That said, it made me laugh to think of trainspotters bellowing and being loutish !
Ug ug. let’s charter me a chain for my neo nazi friends and I to get wasted on and get some more carriage numbers.
Give us a break – that story is wafer thin on facts !
Posted on December 9th, 2008 at 5:30 pm
Christian
You’re going to have to do a lot to redeem yourself after this debacle.
Might I suggest you start by ensuring that your next article in the national press concerning enthusiasts is about the hassle we get nowadays from security jobsworths, individuals for whom the description “Nazi” is far more appropriate than a bunch of Peak bashers on a charity fundraiser?
Posted on December 9th, 2008 at 6:10 pm
Don’t worry about it, Christian
I very much appreciate your work on the web, in print and on the telly. Keep up the good work
Posted on December 9th, 2008 at 6:58 pm
Hello christian
I am quite worried about the fact you failed to see that a tabloid news paper was going to mess up the facts.And I would like to add yes you are in trouble us rail enthusiasts never asked you to represent us in any way Pipp dunn is currently making headway in this situation and there was no need for your action.
I respect you as a speaker and your opinions and publications are highly thought of by me but please don’t do anything like this again because we don’t like being portrayed as Nazi’s.
It isn’t you fault what has happened but some common sense would have averted this situation…………..
Posted on December 9th, 2008 at 8:19 pm
Hi Christian..We have all made errors of judgement and I feel with that DM article it happened to be your turn. What has shown in the replies above and also on a couple of Railway Forums is that there is at least implied respect for you for your previous work.
The fact that they have stated their surprise at your involvement with this article does I feel suggest that you should take notice and reflect on your article.
Credit to you for posting some comments in response to the reactions but after you erased part of it, the article then read ” and there has been a string of other incidents ” and as the class 40 was mentioned in the article, it again points the finger at the followers of the loco.
On the first couple of Mainline class 40 tours some 6 years ago there was some high jinx, but they were eradicated and now we have ironically passed the 40 mark for hauling
Railtours that have been trouble free.
I feel upset about the comments and I also truly sympathise for the Peak lads in the photograph.What exactly did they do to warrant a photo of themselves being linked to an article with the bold headlines of TRAINSPOTTERS RUNNING AMOC ?
Please Christian, place an apolagy and a correction in next weeks paper.
We are all for stopping hooliganism on trains, regardless of the traction or rolling stock. Furthermore,whilst we all have our favourite traction, non of us want to see our fellow preservationists being wrongly accused or having their efforts to obtain funding for their cause thwarted because someone may recognise them from a misleading article you produced.
Im sure you didnt mean to cause offence and im sure that deep down you dont want to be associated with a story fraught with errors and over reactions.
As I stated earlier, there were a couple of minor incidents on the train on November 15 and one person was escorted off it at Leeds on the return.
It has to be stressed that those people he had the altercation with, did not press charges SO NO ARREST WAS ACTUALLY MADE.
A 13 hour journey with 500 + passengers on the train. Compare that to the amount of trouble caused every weekend in pubs and clubs from a lot less people in a shorter space of time.
I feel the CFPS warrant some form of apolagy and the Peak lads a true and genuine apolagy.
Finally Christian, Some have stated there anger with you, in my case, I was not angry, I was just frustrated so I would like to extend the hand of friendship to you and invite you to travel on our Railtour to Edinburgh on January 3rd.
Please contact me at chairman@cfps.co.uk if you would like to take up my genuine offer.
kind regards
John Stephens
CFPS.
Posted on December 9th, 2008 at 8:23 pm
At least you have now realised the true power of the press to over hype and exaggerate. You have actually met one of those in the picture of the loco at Llangollen, a highly skilled and widely respected rolling stock engineer and preservationist. I’m sure he was thrilled with being associated with “nazis”. The salute was generally made with the right arm and at a steeper angle by the way. My Mother in Law experienced their brutality over six horrible years. The Nazis, that is, not a group of skilled and generous people preserving our railway heritage and raising money for a cancer charity. The “Mystic Wolmar” really should avoid writing for the gutter press, you’re better than that.
Posted on December 9th, 2008 at 11:53 pm
The Bad reputation was 20 – 25 years ago – but don’t let the story get in the way of the facts -a promising career with The Sun beckons ! ?
You see Union jack flags at England matches for all sorts of lower division clubs and out of the way places – can’t remember them being BNP strongholds – the irony is that the BNP hi-jacked the Union Jack – too much holier than thou , Liberal Handwringing , self -rightneous and political correctness
Posted on December 10th, 2008 at 12:56 am
For one that is supposed to support the rail industry, you have certainly made life a little harder for those that make their living from running charter trains. Any “normal” intending passenger reading your well judged and endlessly researched article (complete with stolen photos…) is likely to make the judgement that all charters are filled to the brim with drunken Nazis.
Well done Mr Wolmar, keep up your support of the rail industry. I for one will not part with any of my cash for publications that use your journalistic ’skills’.
Posted on December 10th, 2008 at 1:40 am
I can’t believe that Wolmar has associated himself with such twaddle. Shame on you – apology required now for the sake of your own dignity.
Posted on December 10th, 2008 at 2:08 am
Mr. Wolmar,
I would like to add that I too was disappointed with the article which I feel was below your usual high standards. The photographs used were taken out of context, probably intentionally by the sub-editor to beef up the story and were completely unneccesary although I accept that Nazi style salutes with a union jack could be misinterpreted.
An earlier poster mentioned donating your fee to a cancer charity, whilst this is a matter entirely for yourself of course it would be a marvellous gesture, particularly at this time of year and would be a positive ending to this unfortunate event.
Thank you.
Posted on December 10th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
Christian,
Your a very good transport journalist who writes well informed articles that are of use in the debate on public transport and its role in economic, environmental and global warming issues. This is a much wider and more important audience / mission than the mere, ( To Quote Zontar) “Care in the Community!” eccentrics ( I admit to borderline tendancies myself ) who may simply get off on a bit of English Electric action. To these people the sound of a Tractor Thrash or the sight of Rail Blue is very important and causes great excitement, to the people who are making important decisions on transport such as Brown, Hoon, Bojo etc they are not. When there is a transport debate raging the national newspapers knock on your door for imformed comment, they don’t go up to the train spotters at the end of a railway platform as their world is generally focused on locomotive classes, their liveries and ( to quote Fiennes ) what’s “under the bonnet”.
I see a few people here shouting about themselves being a professional railwayman as well as enthusiast. I used to drive trains for BR, I’ve driven EE locos in multiple on 2000 tonne plus trains, banked trains with the same, run fast out of Euston with AC electrics etc, etc, Its no big deal and there is a lot about the job that I do not miss however if we are using the yardstick established on this forum thread then I guess that makes me a so called professional. So here a few few tips.
Concentrate on writing, good informed transport articles to a wider audience outside the enthusiast circle.
Do not take to heart some of the rantings of enthusiasts who have left comments here. A large number of these are in a clique that lacks any social skills or the ability to relate to people in ordinary everyday life whatsoever. ( watch the excellent Documentary “Bashers” on youtube to get an idea of who you are dealing with if you haven’t already).
Do explain, even if it falls on deaf ears how newspaper editorial is divided between Word and Picures with Newspapers having a Picture Editor who sources images to go with an article. It is up to him to sign off on the copyright of any pictures that are run in association with an article. (Unless you have indeed been naughty and told him it was your picture).
Stop all this blogging on your site and stick to writing well researched articles that you take time to write Properly. The speed and frequency demands of this type of medium really are not good for your reputation as I think you have just found out, Quality not quantity is the key to you maintaining your reputation. The web and website can be a distraction that affects your core job / abilties.
Wishing you a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year and hoping for lots of well informed, well written articles in 2009.
Paul O
Posted on December 10th, 2008 at 4:56 pm
Absolutely spot on article, and the response to those who have responded to you
Football accepts it has a problem with hooligans, and drink. Sadly rail enthusiasts dont accept this, whilst a few morons spoil it for everyone driving good honest hard working well behaved enthusiasts off tours.
Posted on December 10th, 2008 at 8:04 pm
JS – you are absolutely right. No problem was ever solved by pretending that it didn’t exist, and those in positions of responsibility must accept that, and take action to prevent this sort of thing happening in future.
Paul O – I agree with some of what you say, but this is a transport-elated issue, and it warrants coverage. And I don’t agree with you about the blog – it’s a valuable discussion forum, even if some of the comments contain veiled (or not so veiled!) threats – and I presume that Christian finds it useful.
Posted on December 10th, 2008 at 11:44 pm
The two most helpful contribs here – I think – come from Paul O, and John Stephens CFPS – Christian – hope you can reflect on them and the points they made (although John – sadly as a Freelancer Christian won’t be able to get an apology printed in the Mail unless they wanted to print one – and the only people who could try to demand one would be the people in the picture – I suspect they would have no chance).
Christian – I’d try and take up John’s rather generous offer actually. And I think you’d probably better donate that Mail fee to charity too….
Posted on December 11th, 2008 at 11:21 am
Well, there’s certainly some passionate reactions to Christian’s piece, but I think in provoking a discussion about the behaviour of a very small minority on charters, he might actually be doing us all a favour.
There is real and growing concern about people hanging out of windows of charters; there is real concern that ordinary passengers could be put off travelling on charter trains by others’ bad behaviour, and there is concern that what might be harmless fun to some can offend people (the ‘Nazi’ salutes) and the shouting out of windows at other passengers. On the windows issue, remember that it only needs one accident for window bars to be back on the agenda…
I’ve been at a station photting a charter before departure, and passengers on the other platform were getting a load of grief from a few blokes in the leading coach – really nasty, unpleasant abuse that left a small child in tears. How does that help the perception of rail enthusiasts amongst those who don’t share our passion? Likewise the flailing – we might know it’s not intended as a Nazi salute, but what’s Joe Public going to think?
Charter trains are under more scrutiny than they’ve been for a long, long time – and if we want to continue to enjoy travelling on them, we really can’t afford to be seen as anything other than passionate supporters of the railway enjoying our hobby. If people are really saying they’re not prepared to wind in the flailing, drink a couple of pints less, and drop the abuse at normal passengers, then the future of enthusiast charters could be in real trouble. Which would bugger things up for all of us.
Posted on December 11th, 2008 at 12:22 pm
I’ve watched the Bashers virals on You Tube – I didn’t do that much bashing after 1980 – it was more of a Social event thereafter – I’d work and “other things ” , I was more into photographing all sorts of things and my heart wasn’t really in it – let’s face it – what are people trying to prove or achieve ?
The embarrassing part is the geeky / nerdy upper sixth form common room clique mentality which frankly is something that people should have grown out of years ago – the other mentality is that the railway was for the benefit of those people . Add alcohol and it’s a very dangerous cocktail .
I worked on the railway for 9 years and there was this ” the job should be your hobby and more committed than thou “- pre – privatization mantra from overgrown train-spotters in charge .
TBH I’d enough of trains , everything literally revolved round shifts and timetables . Me and the brother tend to distance ourselves from some of the embarrassing excesses by going first class hopefully without being anti-social , I certainly don’t go for this hiking / anoraky image – god knows why some people need all that gear to get from the car park to the platform and vice – versa .
However that was an awful article and there is a lot of people who certainly don’t deserve the treatment dished out to them , be it the guys who volunteer to keep these old trains going and the Peak Bashers raising money for charity .
Pip Dunn’s article was constructive – maybe Bouncers are needed to deal with that minority like in the real world – sorry Christian , I’d respect for your articles on railway politics but that was Tabloid Trash , anything but constructive
Posted on December 11th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
This problem has existed for a while and whilst it needs to be tackled harshly not to spoil genuine enjoyment for most concerned, it needs to be kept in context. Most enthusiast type tours pass off without issue or incident and that can be dealt with by sensible stewarding and if people abuse the situation, they should be ejected, arrested, blacklisted and named and shamed in the enthusiast press.
I recall a special from Birmingham to Aberystwyth in c 1986 where 37426 was going to be named and the 10 superb ‘Inter-City’ liveried Mark 1 vehicles were effectively trashed by a small group of individuals who had little capability of self control. Damage was done to some vehicles on that train, and the amount of litter, split alcohol and vomit in certain areas of the train had to be seen to be believed.
If these tours have to have the windows barred over to prevent ridiculous behaviour, made ‘dry’ to stop the drinking then it will make them a far less attractive thing to do and spoil the situation for the many sensible enthusiasts like myself who enjoy some rare track, suitable traction and even the odd beer or two during the course of the day. It is in the enthusiasts hand themselves to put this right by more responsible behaviour and to rid ourselves of the problem by the harshest means if needed. I may sound like an old f*rt but you cannot tolerate the behaviour as described and sometimes it DOES go on.
Its a small problem that needs keeping in context but I am sure you should spend your time writing more useful things to rid this railway of the government micro management of the industry and allow the professionals to get on running the job.
Rant over……….
Posted on December 11th, 2008 at 9:40 pm
I’m afraid that the problem that Mr Wolmar has got is that while he is undoubedtly a well informed railway commentator in many areas, he has become somewhat a ‘rent a quote’ talking-head, who is expected to have knowledge on ‘everything railway’ and often leaves himself open to justified criticism – like the slap dash Nazi association judgement.
That doesn’t make what he said about the loutish behaviour on diesel ‘crank’ tours wrong however. Infact, I have had the personal displeasure of witnessing with my own eyes the quite bizarre actions of some of the idiots who hang arms well ‘out of NR loading gauge’ and often use abusive langauge towards on-train stewards who tell them to stop.
The only way to stop this is not by tarring all enthusiasts with the same brush, but by being brave enough to ban those individuals who spoil the enjoyment of other well mannered, decent people.
Posted on December 12th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
Well I expected nothing more from you on this, I always thought your style of reporting was terrible and haven’t bought a copy of rail since the early 1990’s about when you started.
Yes there was an incident of a rail tour, but did that warrant a full in depth report on tour behaviour? there has always been a small element of the roadshows as there is in life a small minority try to spoilt for the majority, however they are on the whole very well behaved this is the most extreme in years and is more about ‘one’ individual instead of a group of cranks. Those who are identified in the past have been banned from tours which stops any further problem.
As for the ‘Nazi salutes’ comment, if you knew anything about railway enthusiasts this arm salute is more semaphore than Nazi and has been bellowed since the days of steam! There’s even a piece of film of an A4 in BR lined green storming past a load of spotters and one raises his arm the same way any crank does today at the sight and sound of a loco that he rates! The arm is raised to the side not directly ahead of the body!
Why did you name the tour company and not the other tour providers where there has been trouble did you seek to balance this report and contact any of them for a retort?
Please don’t bother writing about railways as it’s something you obviously know very little about the subject stick to the politics and advertising that Rail or Liar has become since the mid 1990’s I wouldn’t even use it for a litter try if had a cat it’s that rubbish!
Posted on December 12th, 2008 at 11:03 pm
Wow. what a lot of **** comments! Could not all this hot air have been used to better effect? Like heat a waiting room (if they still exist)
Posted on December 13th, 2008 at 1:26 pm
“If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, etc etc. ” – Hmmm, I think you could have gone a tad deeper into the subject before writing such article!
It always saddens me when I see reports in newspapers that I have some knowledge of, and those reports are so obviously way off the actual. I’m not naïve enough to think everything you see / read in our newspapers is on the mark, but you have to hope, don’t you…
Posted on December 15th, 2008 at 10:30 am
Dear Mr Wolmar,
Having read Rail for many years, I tended to view your work as largely accurate and your commentaries as interesting. It is a shame I can’t say the same of your piece in the Daily Mail.
Continuing to show the poorly researched facts you have used, the photograph that you refer to in your Blog above, is actually a Class 46 (No 46010), not a Class 45. The Daily Mail copied the photo from the Llangollen Diesel Group website and then reproduced it without our permission or offer of a fee for its use.
46010 is not working a charter on the mainline and nobody in the photo is holding a drink or damaging anything. We can argue about how inappropriate the arm “flails” are until the cows come home, but the bottom line is that the context in which the guys in the photograph were doing it has no relevance to your article.
I totally agree with you that the drunken behaviour of a small minority of diesel and steam fans -(yes I’ve seen them behaving badly over the years as well!), is unacceptable. I have also read Pip Dunn’s editorial in Railways Illustrated this month, to which you also refer to in your Blog.
Pip’s comments target this specific minority in a constructive manner and in a journal that the individuals in question may well be reading. Your article in the Mail does little other than to give its already unbalanced readership more reasons to pour scorn on the Railway Enthusiast. I doubt you intended to do this, but that’s the overall effect as I see it.
I would like to finish by pointing out that 46010 is in need of urgent attention to her bodywork and a top end power unit overhaul. Perhaps as a gesture of goodwill you might see fit to offer a donation to the Llangollen Diesel Group to put towards keeping her running?
Kind regards
Tez Pickthall
Publicity Officer, Llangollen Diesel Group
Posted on December 15th, 2008 at 11:20 pm
Tez Pickthall,
Go after the Daily Mail for some cash towards that top end power unit overhaul, from what you state it was they and not Mr Woolmar who infringed copyright and by association brought your groups good name into disrepute in the bargain. It’s worth seeking legal advice as unauthroised usage of images from the net is a burgeoning business and many are settling out of court for decent money, far more than Mr Woolmar would have been paid for his article.
To summarise. Just as Class 46 is different from a Class 45. Christian Woolmar is not the Picture Editor at the Daily Mail. Reign your fire onto the the auspieces of the Mighty Mail on Sunday, for it is they alone who can be legally challenged for commiting offences of copyright infringment and defamation of your groups good name by association and if this did go to a court of law they and not Mr Woolmar would be in the dock defending themselves.
Posted on December 21st, 2008 at 3:49 am
Why can’t people just be calm about this? How can it be such a big deal?
I hope that people stop making a fuss about it. The criticisms have been made.
This is being treated by some people like the Jonathan Ross and Russel Brand incident. It does not cause embarrassment to an innocent person. And the idea of suspension is ludicrous in this case.
And in this day and age I guess it is possible for an editor to insert an image into an article behind the original writer’s back (say, just after they have sent the writing from a home computer) and then publish it the next morning without prior permission about the use of the image.
Posted on December 23rd, 2008 at 11:26 pm
Equally – the so-called “real” industry insiders and experts are often seldom around to defend themselves whenever the proverbial hits the fan. The present structure means that the railway never speaks with a unified voice. Instead the industry allows itself to get mauled by the media at the slightest whiff of bad news, and the right wing tabloid press are only too willing to keep fanning the flames, further adding to apathy amongst the general public.
The trouble is “railway bashing” has been as big a national pastime in this country as moaning about the weather. It’s time we got out of it. And that starts with listening to everyone’s opinions and taking them on board instead of this never ending mud slinging match.
Posted on December 29th, 2008 at 12:34 pm
Kevin Steele is right. The interests of the owners of Tabloid papers are the same as those of the Car Economy, so Rail Bashing is an opportunity to take hold of by such organisations. The British public are suckers for this. They have to keep the car economy lie alive and make sure people don’t think for themselves. It’s OK to marvel over the expensive liabilities parked on the driveway but not some shiny new AGV, for instance.
Posted on January 4th, 2009 at 11:40 pm
Further to my point in No.40 above – lets see how long it takes for the media to get its daggers out over this weekend’s problems on the WCML – of course in the case of the Staffordshire OLE incident Network Rail were completely blameless, but no doubt there will be a roasting (probably in the Daily Mail…) over this morning’s problems at Watford Jct……..
Posted on January 5th, 2009 at 10:09 am
Like many normal rail enthusisists i enjoy a day out behind some vintage traction. However i have come to notice over the years that my hobby is being spoilt by groups of people who feel it is necessary to cause a riot on tours.
I do enjoy my diesels however i do like my steam and have never experienced any trouble on any tour using this traction. On a steam tour you can enjoy yourself without feeling threatened or abused. Whereas i have come to noticed that on diesel tours a few pints changes people from normal citizens to idiots.
Something needs to be done about those individuals looking for trouble. Some rail tour companies have started to do something but the rest need to follow as if more trouble occurs on tours then i won’t be prepared to go on them when a small minority spoil it for everyone.
Now i wasn’t on the 40 tour so i cannot comment on what happened but if such situations as this happen again and become centre of attention in the media then i may end up not doing any tours instead. I want to carry on doing my hobby but for how much longer we will have to see.
Posted on January 5th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
You make some valid points there Simon, but I have seen many pieces of unacceptable behaviour from steam enthusiasts over the years, as I mentioned earlier.
I have seen the Police called to a train at Bridgnorth during overnight running at an SVR Steam Gala following an assault in the Railwayman’s arms. The man in question was arrested. I don’t think this even made the local Shropshire Star, let alone the Daily Mail. OK, it wasn’t on the National network, but is that really relevant?
I also find a small minority of steam followers, particularly photographers, to be an obnoxious and rude bunch when they’re quite sober. I have seen people abused for standing on a platform, with a ticket to board the approaching steam hauled tour, by those who seem to think it’s their god given right to capture a perfect image to the detriment of others. I have also been on the receiving end of abuse for wanting to look closely at locos on display at depot open days, as it momentarily obscures someone’s photograph of a locomotive they have already doubtless shot in the same three quarter pose many times before.
There is clearly a mentality of abject selfishness amongst some people, be it followers diesel or steam. However, this is no different from any other hobby or walk of life, so does not deserve victimisation in a National Newspaper, especially when it is specifically targeted at one small group.
Posted on January 10th, 2009 at 3:45 pm
Thank you Tez for your comments come to think of it i went to the last Crewe open day and there were many photographers who were shouting abuse at people who were in the way of there ideal shot.
Now i know at such large events it is hard not to get in people’s way but if people were more considerate then i feel that many of these problems wouldn’t exist. I agree with Tez that a small minority of steam photographers do seam to think they are in a world of there own but as far as i can see this problem will never go away.
Posted on January 12th, 2009 at 3:31 pm
[...] Re: Peak Army – Trainspotters on the rampage! On Dec 7, 3:00*am, "Peter Fox" <peterfoxd…@tiscali.co.uk> wrote: > "Tony Polson" <docnews2…@googlemail.com> wrote in message > > > Any familiar faces here? > > Yes. I recognise somebody. But this is surely a photograph of a respectable > crowd of enthusiasts on a preserved railway including one person who ownsa > Peak. I fail to see what that photo has to do with the story, other than the > misrepresentation of the arms in the air as having anything to do with > nazis. Christian Wolmar has now published some follow-up comments on his web site, here: http://www.christianwolmar.co.uk/200…l-fans-antics/ [...]
Posted on January 18th, 2009 at 7:20 pm
I doubt the behaviour above was anything like as disgusting as that of football fans. I had to stop travelling from Sheffield to work in Nottingham Saturday lunchtimes because of the constant abuse, shouting, bawling, foul language, intimidation of women, the terrifying of young children was just too much. And guess what? Not ONCE (over 10, 20 weekends) did any member of the train crew leave their private quarters. Football fans are a vile lot. And, no, it’s not just a ’small minority’. It’s most of ‘em. Went back to the car and the M1. It was civilsed by comparison. I’ve long said: ban ALL alcohol on ALL public transport (trains, buses, planes, the lot).
Posted on August 25th, 2009 at 6:27 pm
Well yeah Jeff I agree totally. BR stopped the London-Scotland sleepers on Saturday nights for this very reason, and that policy survived privatisation.
I feel sorry for the Caledonian Sleeper staff whenever there are European ties between major Scottish/English premier league teams which invariably happen midweek – I recall one time when Chelsea were playing Rangers and I was going down to London….invariably the train was plagued by drunken Chelsea fans going home on the overnight train – not a pleasant experience when they nearly started a fight in the lounge car because the attendant wouldn’t serve them booze.
Posted on August 25th, 2009 at 9:33 pm
If you take actions out of their context and put them into another just to compase a sensational article, then that makes you more of an arsehole than those you’re trying to ridicule.
The story was poorly researched, the case in point being the 2003 picture. Whoever compiled the story should have put it in the humourous fiction section. Probably where the rest of the Daily Mail tat should be.
At least this one was actually funny….
Posted on December 4th, 2009 at 12:31 am
Pete – I know charter trains run late on occasion but your comment is about 360 days after the original post. Nice touch of personal abuse too to make other readers see your side of the argument.
Posted on December 4th, 2009 at 11:20 am
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